[fse-esf] Re: Patience, not intolerence!
Simó Endre
drsimoendre at freemail.hu
Wed May 31 08:28:48 CEST 2006
Dear Piero,
You have written in your last message, that "SO, AS WE DECIDED IN
ATHENES, COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL, AND IMMEDIATELY, FROM IRAQ AND
AFGHANISTAN".
I call your attention to he fact, that there is no mention in the text of
the Declaration of the Assembly of the Movements of the "immediate"
withdrawal.
The text we have approved is writing: "We will mobilize for a
complete withdrawal of troops from Iraq and Afganistan, against the
threat of a new war in Iran, against the occupation of Palestine, for
nuclear desarmement, to eliminate military bases in Europe and we call
for a week of action from 23 to 30 September 2006."
es
piero bernocchi <pierobernocchi at libero.it> írta:
> Dear comrades and friends,
> first of all, thanks a lot to all of you that support our struggle in a very
> difficult and complex passage of the italian movement against the
war.
> I read with the maximun of attention the messages of Franco Russo
and Marco
> Berlinguer, two important members of PRC. Marco said that "we don't
need to
> provoke artificial arguments in our debate" and Franco said, more or
less,
> that the struggle against the war is so important that we don't have
to play
> with "words". Well done, i agree. Unfortunately, THEY are
playing "with the
> words". Because for them it's impossible to answer clearly to the
following
> answers:
> 1) if, as Sothiris said, the engagement and the role, NOW, of the
italian
> troops in Afghanistan is more (much more) important than in Iraq and
the war
> in Afghanistan is cruel, terrible and imperialist exactly as in Iraq, why
> PRC will vote to the maintain (ALL) the italian troops in Afghanistan?
> 2) why the PRC delegation in Athenes agreed with the COMPLETE
withdrawal of
> the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and now in Italy the PRC
decides
> exactly to do the contrary, at least for Afghanistan?
> 3) why the PRC didn't ask the government to cancel the offensive
military
> parade of the 2th of June with orrible tools of war? and why
Bertinotti, who
> has no institutional duties on that, will attend the parade?
> 4) why PRC accepts the visit of the super-terrorist (n.2 in the world,
after
> Busf, off course) Tony Blair exactly the 2th of June, during our demo in
> Rome, and the meeting with Prodi, offensive for all the italian
movement?
> 5) and last but not least, the withdrawal from Iraq. Franco and
Marco, you
> know very well that the Prodi government, and D'Alema especially,
changed
> their mind at least five time in the last five days, because the
pression of
> the movement. First, they said "we will leave more or less 800
militars in
> Iraq to defend our civil groops"; then, they said "we can withdraw all
the
> troops, but not now, we have to decide with the legal government of
Iraq"
> and now they say "ok, we try to withdraw all the troops but we can't
say
> when exactly because we have to decide with legal Iraq government
and to
> discuss with Usa government - D'Alema will go to meet Condoleeza
Rice the
> 12th of June - but in any case we'll return in Iraq with a civil mission
to
> rebuilding Iraq, that will be defended, off course, by militars".
> And Matco said that "Italy intends to maintain a civic and political
support
> toward the rebuilding of the society in Iraq. "Rebuilding"? "Civic and
> political support"? "Legal government of Iraq"? Franco and Marco,
what are
> you talking about? The italian troops in Iraq are there to defend the
oil
> interests of ENI (and generally of Italy), to partecipate to the sack of
> Iraq. And now it's not the time, unfortunately, of "rebuilding" but of
the
> war. When the war will be over, when the USA and GB troops will be
obbliged
> to go away from Iraq, we'll be able to think how to help the Iraq
people to
> "rebuilding". But now to help the Iraq governement (illegal, quisling,
at
> the service of USA ecc..) with the fable (better, the yarn) of "civic
> rebuilding" is inacceptable.
> SO, AS WE DECIDED IN ATHENES, COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL, AND
IMMEDIATELY, FROM
> IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.
> THAT'S THAT. And sorry for my terrible english (english?)
> Piero Bernocchi COBAS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marco Transform" <marco.berlinguer at transform.it>
> To: "'MENAHEM, Georges'" <MENAHEM at irdes.fr>; "'Simó Endre'"
> <drsimoendre at freemail.hu>; "'piero bernocchi'"
<pierobernocchi at libero.it>
> Cc: <fse-esf at fse-esf.org>; "'Forum sociale europeo'"
> <fse-esf at lists.fse-esf.org>; <global-peace-movement-
info at lists.riseup.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 12:06 PM
> Subject: R: [fse-esf] Re: Patience, not intolerence!
>
>
> Dear all, this discussion is based on a false assumption, because
Italy is
> going to withdraw the troops from Iraq, completely and as soon as
possible.
> This is what is written in the programme of the Unione and what
Prodi told
> to the Parliament. And nobody in the government is speaking about a
partial
> withdrawal. I think, Piero, that we don't need to provoke artificial
> arguments in our debate. What it is under discussion is a political and
> civic support that Italy intends to maintain toward the rebuilding of
the
> society in Iraq. We'll see how this commitment will take form and we'll
> openly discuss these measures when they will be clear. But it is a
> completely different and distinct issue. It can't reduce the clear
political
> meaning of the complete Italian military withdrawal from the Iraqi
war.
> Marco
>
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: MENAHEM, Georges [mailto:MENAHEM at irdes.fr]
> Inviato: lunedě 29 maggio 2006 11.00
> A: Simó Endre; piero bernocchi
> Cc: fse-esf at fse-esf.org; Forum sociale europeo;
> global-peace-movement-info at lists.riseup.net
> Oggetto: RE: [fse-esf] Re: Patience, not intolerence!
>
>
> Dear Simo, dear alls,
>
> I quite agree with what is saying Simo.
> We have to go on step by step. Partial withdrawal is a first step.
> We can't neglect it even if what we are fighting for is a total
withdrawal,
> in Irak as in Afghanistan, or as in the naval or aircraft basis
elsewhere in
> the world. In solidarity
>
> Georges Menahem
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : fse-esf-bounces at lists.fse-esf.org
> [mailto:fse-esf-bounces at lists.fse-esf.org] De la part de Simó Endre
Envoyé :
> lundi 29 mai 2006 09:52 Ŕ : piero bernocchi Cc : fse-esf at fse-esf.org;
Forum
> sociale europeo; global-peace-movement-info at lists.riseup.net
> Objet : [fse-esf] Re: Patience, not intolerence!
>
> Dear Piero,
>
> The final declaration of the Movements in Athens has been
> formulated also with my personal participation and our agreement, as
> Hungarian Social Forum cwg. So I know it quite well. We have all
> demanded the total withdrawal of the foreign troops of occupation
from
> Iraq and Afghanistan, but we did'nt say, that we were against
> decisions, as the italian government's one, partial it could be, directed
> to the complete desengagement from Iraq. Why should we reject
such
> an essential political initiative, helping the isolation of Bush and Blair
> military policy? It is the first time since the beginning of the war on
Iraq
> and Berlusconi's decisio to participate at it, that an italian government
> openly declare: "The war in Iraq is a serious mistake" (Word of italian
> foreign minister, Massimo D'Alema, pronounced on 27th May 2006.)
> Fact is, that this important political changement in the italian policy
was
> taken not by Berlusconi, but by Prodi's center-left coalition. And Tony
> Blair will be obliged to swallaw this bitter pill in Rome. He must realize
> that "the opposition and resistance to the war and occupation of Iraq
> have exposed the British and US strategy as a failure" - as we have
> written in the declaration of the Assembly of the Movements. In
> conclusion, my opinion is, that we have to push for the total
withdrawal
> of the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, without rejecting passes and
> mesures going in that sense. The partial withdrawal of the italian
> troops from Iraq is going in that sense! We have to fight for the total
> withdrawal with patience and perseverence, not with intolerence! vis
a
> vis of correct and positive decisions. Only by acting so, we will acquire
> the sympathy of people who will not participate at your meeting
around
> Castel Sant'Angelo, but at the National Day parade in Fori Imperiali
> with Napolitano, Prodi, Bertinotti, Marini and Blair as their guest.
>
> Endre
>
> piero bernocchi <pierobernocchi at libero.it> írta:
>
> > You said well, Simo: "PARTIAL withdrawal" from Iraq, not "TOTAL
> withdrawal"
> > as the italian center-left promised before the elections. And, as you
> know,
> > Berlusconi too planned the "partial withdrawal" from Iraq in
february
> 2006.
> > In addition, Prodi's government wants to let ALL italian troops in
> > Afghanistan: and, as you know, in Afghanistan there is a terrible
and
> > imperialist Usa's war as in Iraq. The italian troops lead this war. We
> say
> > "ALL the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan". Don't you remember
> that we
> > decided, as Assembly of Social Movements, in Athenes exactly that?
> We didn't
> > say in Athenes "A PART of troops out of Iraq but ALL the troops can
> remain
> > in Afghanistan", did we? And last but not least, Prodi decided not to
> cancel
> > the military parade in Rome the 2th of june (and Bertinotti decided
to
> > attend the obscene exhibition of instruments of death), with
massive
> > distruction weapons, and military brigades that are in Iraq and
> Afghanistan
> > too; and, in addition, to invite in Rome in the same day Tony Blair
> > that we - as COBAS - consider (exactly as the SWP does) "the
second
> terrorist in
> > the world" (after Bush). Do you ask us, maybe, to cheer and
applaud
> Prodi
> > and Bertinotti and to congratulate them on these incredible
> decisions? In
> > this case, i'm obbliged to disappoint you. We will organise, with all
> > the movement, a lot of demo in Italy, and above all the most
important
> one in
> > Rome (rally at Castel S.Angelo h.10), the 2th of june against the
> military
> > parade and for the TOTAL withdrawal of the troops from Iraq,
> Afghanistan and
> > all the other countries where the italian military forces are now.
> > In solidarity, Piero Bernocchi COBAS
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Simó Endre" <drsimoendre at freemail.hu>
> > To: "piero bernocchi" <pierobernocchi at libero.it>
> > Cc: <global-peace-movement-info at lists.riseup.net>; <fse-esf at fse-
> esf.org>;
> > "Forum sociale europeo" <fse-esf at lists.fse-esf.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 11:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: [fse-esf] Tony Blair in Rome - one moment please!
> >
> >
> > Dear Piero,
> >
> > It was not Prodi, who has sent italian soldiers to Iraq. But it was
> the
> > Prodi's government, that yesterday has announced the partial
> > withdrawal of the italian troops from Iraq.
> > When the Hungarian National Assembly has decided not to
continue
> > with hungarian military assistance of the occupation of Iraq, the
> > Hungarian Social Forum cwg has expressed agreement with the
decision,
> > and we have asked, that Hungary never more participate at any
> > occupation of other countries and peoples.
> >
> > friendly, Endre Simó
> >
> > piero bernocchi <pierobernocchi at libero.it> írta:
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > i send you a declaration about the visit of Tony Blair in Rome, the
> 2th
> > of
> > > June and about the Prodi's decisions about it, about the military
> > parade in
> > > Rome the same day and the maintain of the presence of italian
> > troops in Iraq
> > > and Afghanistan. Unfortunately, the declaration is in italian. Dear
> > friends
> > > and comrades of Babel, please, could you translate into english?
> > Thanks a
> > > lot, in solidarity, Piero Bernocchi COBAS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PRODI PROVOCA IL MOVIMENTO NO-WAR
> > >
> > > NON VOGLIAMO BLAIR A ROMA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In questi giorni abbiamo chiesto ripetutamente al governo Prodi di
> > abolire l
> > > 'oscena parata bellica del 2 giugno. Perché la festa della
> > > Repubblica
> > deve
> > > essere celebrata con armi di morte e reparti che sono truppe di
> > occupazione
> > > in Iraq e Afghanistan? Perché non trasformarla in una festa di
> tutti/e,
> > > eliminando la presenza militare? Nessuna risposta: la parata c
stata
> > > confermata. Abbiamo poi chiesto al neopresidente della Camera
> > Bertinotti e
> > > ai parlamentari che in questi anni sono stati/e nelle
manifestazioni
> > > anti-guerra di tenersi, almeno loro, ben lontani dalla parata.
> > > Perché dovrebbero stare sul palco di una esibizione bellica che
> > > tutto il
> > movimento
> > > no-war rifiuta e contester´r? Nessuna risposta positiva.Abbiamo
> > chiesto il
> > > ritiro immediato e completo delle truppe non solo dall'Iraq ma
anche
> > dall'
> > > Afghanistan: e ora apprendiamo che il governo lascer´r le truppe
non
> > solo in
> > > Afghanistan ma anche in Iraq, almeno 800 militari, e ritirer´r gli
> > > altri addirittura in autunno, persino peggio di quanto
programmato
> > > da
> > Berlusconi.
> > > E in piu Prodi decide di provocare platealmente il movimento
contro
> la
> > > guerra: il 2 giugno non solo ci sar´r la parata bellica, ma Prodi
> > incontrer´r
> > > a Roma Tony Blair, il principale responsabile, insieme a Bush, della
> > guerra
> > > in Iraq, l'inventore della tragica favola sulle "armi di distruzione
> > > di massa" con cui si c giustificata l'aggressione, il
> > > corresponsabile di orrende stragi terroristiche come quella di
> > > Fallujah e tante altre.
> > >
> > > Prodi andr´r a braccetto con i peggiori guerrafondai come
Berlusconi?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > NON VOGLIAMO IL PIU' GRANDE TERRORISTA DEL MONDO (DOPO
> > BUSH) A ROMA.
> > >
> > > VIA BLAIR DA ROMA, VIA LA PARATA MILITARE, VIA LE TRUPPE DA
> IRAQ
> > E
> > > AFGHANISTAN, TUTTE E SUBITO.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Piero Bernocchi
> > >
> > > Confederazione COBAS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > FSE-ESF mailing list
> > > FSE-ESF at lists.fse-esf.org
> > > http://lists.fse-esf.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fse-esf
> > >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
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