[fse-esf] Stalinist banner at the European Social Forum

[Judith Dellheim]

*Von:* "Judith Dellheim" <JUDITH.DELLHEIM at WEB.DE>
*Gesendet:* 09.05.06 19:01:31
*An:* borut osonkar <BORUT.OSONKAR at RIKOM.SI>
*Betreff:* Re: RE: [fse-esf] Stalinist banner at the European Social Forum


Yes: Stalin and stalinism are unacceptable and we shouldn't tolerate Stalinist banners on the ESF. 

But stalinism is not only a matter of some official parties but of many other organisations. The necessary discussion about the future of the ESF process is much more than a debate about parties. We need such a discussion.

And now again: Thank you so much to our greek friends for their enormous work. It was great! The ESF could hold its chance for the future thanks the greek activists.

In solidarity

Judith Dellheim 


*Von:* borut osonkar <BORUT.OSONKAR at RIKOM.SI>
*Gesendet:* 09.05.06 16:31:24
*An:* Carla Krüger <CARLAKRUEGER at T-ONLINE.DE>
*CC:* FSE-ESF FSE-ESF <FSE-ESF at LISTS.FSE-ESF.ORG>
*Betreff:* Re: RE: [fse-esf] Stalinist banner at the European Social Forum


Dear Carla and all,
yes, opinions may and must differ, and perhaps we can tolerate them all (i'm not allways so shore about that). But we can't accept them all, that would be, among others, a paranoid situation. Stalin and stalinism is unacceptable. Nowadays and modern stalinists? Hah!!! I don't have to loose any words or even arguments on that. 
And also, parties in ESF and WSF process are unaceptable. They hold the power anyway. And beside, they had their chance. Now it is peoples turn. 
el pueblo unido...
borut osonkar






Dear Jon,
I am often angered by your letters: of course, there was nothing worse than the fascist crimes. Do not use this fact to denigrate humanist socialist ideas. Too bad that we did not meet at the social forum to get things square. What do you think, for instance, about the right wingers getting back to power in Poland? In that connection, I always remember that Stalinism would have been half as bad if there had not been Hitler to make things worse for the USSR. Whether that means, we should or should not have Stalin banners at the ESF, I am simply not sure about. Opinions may differ, which means probably that we should tolerate them.
Best wishes, until, hopefully, the next ESF
Carla (Berlin)


"Jon Cloke" <damage61 at hotmail.com> schrieb:

> Martin,
> 
> It's a sad truth that some of the old left parties in Europe are no 
> different at all in their politics than extreme right-wingers like the 
> British Nationalist Party and the Fronte Nationale, but if those right-wing 
> parties had turned up to put up their banners as the organizer you spoke to 
> suggested they might, then I think you'd have found his/her answer to be 
> completely different...
> 
> Mass murder by communists is an altogether kinder, gentler and more 
> proletarian process, don't you see, and since communist parties are the only 
> genuine spokespeople for the proletariat and therefore the only source of 
> legitimate governance, then if they say it's alright to commit mass murder, 
> well then it is, OK?
> 
> And if you think it's bad now, you wait until the CPGBies/SWPies and all 
> their little friends get their way and change the charter so that a 
> hierarchy is constructed and they're allowed to participate as parties!
> 
> Jon Cloke

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