[fse-esf] Re: The importance of Palestine for the EuropeanSocialForum

Thu Jan 5 14:11:14 CET 2006

Your point of view proves that, leftist-liberals who view "all kinds of 
violence" as equivalent stay distanced from the legitimate resistances of 
the oppressed. Of course, Nepalese, Colombian guerilla resistance, 
Palestinian intifada are things completely different from the violence of 
the Nepalese Kingdom, of the Uribe government and Zionist Isreal. It is a 
quite easy and formalist way of making analysis, and it simply masks the 
liberal point of view to discuss that all types of violence are the same. It 
is something like equating the French resistance and the Nazi occupiers!
We, the socialists of Turkey had always protested the oppression against 
Chechnya and defend the right of self-determination for this oppressed 
nation. Could you do the same thing Mr. Cloke?

>From: "Jon Cloke" <damage61 at hotmail.com>
>To: doug at abelard.org.uk, sarah.colborne at btopenworld.com
>CC: fse-esf at lists.fse-esf.org
>Subject: [fse-esf] Re: The importance of Palestine for the 
>EuropeanSocialForum
>Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:16:55 +0000
>
>The centrality of Palestine has far less to do with how important it is as 
>a human rights/ democracy/anti-imperialism issue (plainly very important), 
>than it has to do with the hegemonic attitudes of the various left groups 
>across Europe who wish to see the debates and seminars of the ESF directed 
>towards their own party platforms. Thus (for instance) in all the 
>suggestions for seminars and plenaries we see virtually nothing about the 
>continuing war and atrocities in Chechnya, and why? Because the US is not 
>the principle aggressor in it and so it is deemed by vertical socialism to 
>'matter less'. Brutality by the Putin regime is simply far less interesting 
>to verticalists than pointing the finger at the USA, and so we might say 
>that in terms of sensationalism such European left groups see one 
>Palestinian death as being very roughly the media equivalent of 20-30 
>Chechen deaths.
>
>This is the reason why (for instance) that in Florence there were 
>representatives of FARC at one seminar I went to, irrespective of the fact 
>that under the Porto Alegre Charter of Principles groups advocating 
>violence as a legitimate political tool have no place in the Social Forum 
>process. Similarly in London in 2004 there were advertisements for talks by 
>the Nepalese Communist Party, a violent and aggressive group who are 
>generally reckoned to have killed at least as many innocent Nepalese 
>peasants as the police and army, and who are showing all the signs of being 
>the next Sendero Luminoso - I even heard George Galloway stating that 
>whoever the Iraqi insurgency were they were entitled to oppose the US 
>occupation 'by any means necessary', including presumably the murders of 
>barbers, doctors and journalists that are going on at the moment.
>
>Verticalist European parties have plainly not learnt the Noam Chomsky 
>lesson of moral equivalence (from his infamous article in The Nation of 
>June 6 1977 when he pooh-poohed the genocide of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia 
>because it wasn't the responsibility of the USA); they plainly still think 
>that 'socialist' violence, violence supposedly commited in the name of 
>socialism, is 'OK', whereas 'imperialist' violence is 'unacceptable', 
>beliefs that are utterly opposed to what the social forum process stands 
>for and which should have led to the expulsion of such groups in general 
>and George Galloway in particular.
>
>I would like also to make it quite clear to all groups supporting the cause 
>of Palestinian nationhood and freedom from aggression that I am in no way 
>attacking them or the cause of the Palestinian people - I hope I'm as 
>enthusiastic as anyone about the right to exist of a Palestinian state 
>within boundaries determined by an impartial and just process, it's just 
>that I don't understand why we aren't debating that right equally for 
>everyone relevant to the European Social Forum.
>
>Jon Cloke (member ATTAC UK)
>
>
>From: Doug Holton <doug at abelard.org.uk>
>To: "sarah colborne" <sarah.colborne at btopenworld.com>
>CC: fse-esf at lists.fse-esf.org
>Subject: Re: [fse-esf] The importance of Palestine for the European 
>SocialForum
>Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:28:42 +0000
>
>It is difficult to understand the argument against Palestine's centrality.
>solidarity
>Doug Holton
>On Wednesday, January 4, 2006, at 02:29 PM, sarah colborne wrote:
>
>>Dear all, I'm recirculating this email, that was sent before the last EPA 
>>in Istanbul, in the light of the proposals that have been discussed on the 
>>'main events' and in preparation for further discussion that will take 
>>place at the EPA this weekend.
>>
>>It demonstrates the strength of feeling amongst the social movements not 
>>only in Europe but also in Palestine, that the issue of Palestine must 
>>remain central at the next ESF in Athens.
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>
>>Sarah
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: sarah colborne
>>To: fse-esf at fse-esf.org
>>Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 11:55 AM
>>Subject: [FSE-ESF] The importance of Palestine for the European Social 
>>Forum
>>
>>During the discussion on themes/axes for the 2006 European Social Forum 
>>inAthens, we believe that it is essential that the issue of freedom 
>>forPalestineand ending Israeli occupation is prominent.
>>
>>
>>
>>The situation inPalestinecontinues to deteriorate, and the cause of peace 
>>and justice is a central question facing those committed to making another 
>>world possible.
>>
>>
>>
>>This issue is not disconnected from internal European matters - the 
>>relation of individual European countries and the European Union 
>>toPalestineandIsraelhas a significant impact on the daily lives of the 
>>Palestinian people, and the prospects for a just solution. For 
>>example,Europe's arms trade withIsraeldirectly aids the Israeli army's 
>>illegal occupation. European solidarity with the Palestinian people is 
>>essential.
>>
>>
>>
>>We believe that is vital that the issue ofPalestineis placed centrally in 
>>the themes for the next ESF inAthens.
>>
>>
>>
>>Call supported by:
>>
>>
>>
>>European Coordinating Committee onPalestine(ECCP)
>>
>>European Jews for a Just Peace (EJJP)
>>
>>Service Civil International (SCI)
>>
>>
>>
>>Palestinian National Initiative
>>
>>Palestinian Medical Relief Society
>>
>>Grassroots International Protection for the Palestinian People (GIPP)
>>BADIL Resource Center for Palestinian Residency and Refugee Rights, 
>>Bethlehem
>>Palestinian NGO Network
>>
>>Anti-Apartheid Wall Campaign
>>
>>
>>
>>Association Belgo-Palestinienne (Belgian-Palestine Association)
>>Action Platform Palestine, Belgium
>>Vlaams Palestina Komitee (Flemish Palestine Solidarity
>>Committee-Belgium)
>>Centre for Development,Documentation andInformationPalestine (CODIP), 
>>Belgium
>>Rencontre Pour La Palestine, Belgium
>>Oxfam-Wereldwinkels, Belgium
>>Union des Femmes Palestiniennes en Belgique
>>Comité de solidarité avec le peuple palestinien pour Braine l’Alleud et 
>>les environs (Belgium)
>>Solidarité Socialiste, Belgium
>>Vrede, Belgium
>>
>>
>>
>>Coordination de l'Appel de Strasbourg, France
>>
>>Collectif judéo-arabe et citoyen pour la paix, France
>>
>>"Plate-Forme Jeunesse"de Viroinval,France
>>
>>
>>
>>Federation of Associations of Defence and Promotion of Human Rights - 
>>Spain
>>FEDERACIÓN DE ASOCIACIONES DE DEFENSA Y PROMOCIÓN
>>DE LOS DERECHOS HUMANOS (Member organisations: Asociación para las 
>>Naciones Unidas en España (ANUE); Asociación para la Defensa de la 
>>Libertad Religiosa; Asociación Pro Derechos Humanos de España (APDHE); 
>>Comisión Española de Ayuda al Refugiado (CEAR); Institut de Drets Humans 
>>de Catalunya; Instituto de Estudios Políticos para América Latina y África 
>>(IEPALA); Justicia y Paz; Liga Española Pro Derechos Humanos; Movimiento 
>>por la Paz, el Desarme y la Libertad (MPDL); Paz y Cooperación; PTM 
>>Mundubat)
>>
>>
>>
>>MEWANDO
>>
>>
>>
>>PalestineSolidarityCampaign,Britain
>>ManchesterForum forPalestine,Britain
>>PalestineReturnCentre,Britain
>>ICAHDUK
>>
>>1990 Trust
>>
>>
>>
>>Action for Peace,Italy
>>ECO (Ebrei contro l'Occupazione)
>>
>>
>>
>>Comité pour une Paix Juste au Proche-Orient – Luxembourg
>>
>>IrelandPalestineSolidarity Campaign
>>
>>Norwegian Association of NGOs forPalestine
>>
>>NetherlandsPalestineCommittee
>>
>>Society for Austro-Arab Relations,Austria
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>Best wishes
>Doug Holton
>
>
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